It’s a nightmare scenario for Microsoft. The headlining feature of its new Copilot+ PC initiative, which is supposed to drive millions of PC sales over the next couple of years, is under significant fire for being what many say is a major breach of privacy and security on Windows. That feature in question is Windows Recall, a new AI tool designed to remember everything you do on Windows. The feature that we never asked and never wanted it.

Microsoft, has done a lot to degrade the Windows user experience over the last few years. Everything from obtrusive advertisements to full-screen popups, ignoring app defaults, forcing a Microsoft Account, and more have eroded the trust relationship between Windows users and Microsoft.

It’s no surprise that users are already assuming that Microsoft will eventually end up collecting that data and using it to shape advertisements for you. That really would be a huge invasion of privacy, and people fully expect Microsoft to do it, and it’s those bad Windows practices that have led people to this conclusion.

  • dmtalon@infosec.pub
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    7 months ago

    Ya, a PR nightmare for the next 15 minutes until the next unbelievable thing comes along and the ADD nature of people forgets windows is watching everything they do.

    • gusgalarnyk@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I’m swapping to Linux finally because of it. Few things are black and white but these things do have effects and some additional percentage of users are shifting over because of it.

    • assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I agree with your point, but I think it’s important not to forget just how shitty tech media is a holding these companies to account. Half the shit most mainstream tech journalist publish borders on hagiography for these companies.

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      7 months ago

      Ok fine, I’ll repeat it again:

      You’re right - many consumers will likely forget about it and just use it anyways. But enterprise customers absolutely, categorically will not. Even with their damage control, this is still going to hurt them a lot. Moreover, it’s going to hurt hardware sales from Intel, AMD, and Qualcomm, all of which have dumped MASSIVE amounts of capital into this tech. This is going to slow the rollout of NN-optimized chip tiles, and that is going to directly hit their bottom line. Microsoft hurt themselves AND the three most important hardware partners they have.

    • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      That’s usually what I think too, but after watching how Twitter’s gone to shit since the two big user departures, I think this could legitimately affect Microsoft’s bottom line.

    • Weslee@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I’m using windows 11 and after hearing about recall and all the other shit they’ve done, I’ve finally decided to make the jump to Linux

      So for atleast me, this was the final straw

      • fluckx@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I had dabbled in gaming on Linux but never made the jump. After reading about recall I spent a week making my choice on OS of choice ( and then I switched a week after :') ).

        I’m fully on Linux now. Even if they fully back down from windows recall I dont need an OS that’s trying to sell me something based on whatever I do in it.

        It was my final straw as well.

        Edit: and it hasn’t really been bad either. The shader compilation after every gfx driver update is a bit annoying. That’s about it.

        I’ll probably run into something at one point. Like some anti cheat that doesn’t work and is preventing me from playing the game.

          • sgtgig@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            A couple people recommended Fedora spins but I’d recommend just sticking with the big distros (that have up-to-date graphics drivers readily available - so not Debian.) A lot of the gaming-focused distros are only saving you a few terminal commands and increase your risk of running into issues; they’re good, but they may not be as 100% stable as you’ll find in major long-running distros like Fedora or Mint.

            I have settled on Fedora with KDE Plasma. Here’s basically everything I copy pasted for gaming:

            # install steam, discord, nvidia drivers
            sudo dnf install https://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm https://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm -y
            sudo dnf config-manager --enable fedora-cisco-openh264 -y
            sudo dnf update -y
            sudo dnf install steam discord akmod-nvidia xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-cuda
            
            # install bluetooth Xbox driver
            sudo dnf install git dkms
            cd /tmp
            git clone https://github.com/atar-axis/xpadneo.git && cd xpadneo
            sudo ./install.sh
            

            I also had to enable Legacy X11 App Support through the settings gui so that Discord could receive push to talk presses without having focus.

  • bluewing@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    Pfffttt, Microsoft has been there, done this, and got a whole closet full of tee shirts for stuff like this many times over the years. In the end the users don’t care and can’t stop it. And they are, by in large, too lazy to change to something else to completely avoid it.

    It hasn’t ever affected the bottom line enough to matter to them. They will just pull this bug feature and wait for a better day. Or perhaps they will figure out a way to introduce it piecemeal to disguise it better.

  • PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca
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    7 months ago

    I figured on my gaming and VR rig that I’d begrudgingly upgrade it to W11 when W10 stopped receiving security updates and support but at this point the recall feature (which will be used to train LLMs regardless of what Microsoft promises or guarantees) has ensured that I never install that kind of spyware as an operating system.

    I’d rather spend forever troubleshooting and getting my Valve Index to work with Ubuntu than deal with a giant backdoor.

    • areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      I wouldn’t go for Ubuntu. They are also run by a corporation that has done problematic things with the project. It also just doesn’t work that well anymore. Better off going for something Debian or Fedora based, or even an Ubuntu derivative like Pop OS.

        • rtxn@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          It’s Debian-based, but Canonical has been really Microsofty about its development. They now have Snap as a universal packaging format, and have mandated that all official Ubuntu flavors (so X/K/Lubuntu and others, but not derivatives like Mint) must include Snap, and must not include Flatpak in the default installation. They’ve also fucked with APT where installing certain packages, like Firefox, would first install Snap and then the application’s Snap package, without even telling the user. They’ve had some controversy with Amazon ads in the search results, and advertising Ubuntu Pro in the fucking terminal. The default GNOME desktop also has a ton of issues.

          I, and many others, recommend against Ubuntu. Linux Mint is the most commonly recommended “just works” distro. That being said, switching to Ubuntu, if able, is still preferable to staying on Windows.

  • AWittyUsername@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Apple ensures its operating systems are clean, polished, and without bloat.

    Except for all the uninstallable Apple bloat such as Apple Music, Apple TV, etc. And the numerous bugs and issues, such as still not being able to have the touch pad and mouse scroll wheel have different settings.

    • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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      7 months ago

      I remember when everyone was complaining about how terrible Safari is. The lead developer started having a go and ranting on Twitter, saying that raising bug reports is not constructive feedback.

      That was a mess.

    • billwashere@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Apple is not blameless but they are a shit-ton better than Microsoft. I have to have M$ for a few work apps but I’m primarily MacOS for desktop and Linux for everything server-side. I avoid M$ as much as possible.

    • dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      It is okay to be the person that always recommends Linux, especially if you are a kind person with the patience to explain things to people in approachable terms (and you don’t just scream at people SOMEBODY ALREADY ASKED THIS QUESTION USE SEARCH whenever a newbie walks in the door and asks the obvious questions a newbie would ask).

      Now is the time, Linux is pulled up out front waiting to pick us up (with bags packed) and Microsoft is loudly shitting the bed upstairs, NOW is the time to walk straight out the front door, jump in the car with Linux and never look back. We owe it to Microsoft’s long relationship with consumers to leave Microsoft sitting confused on the porcelain throne wondering why they were abandoned and where all the toilet paper is (we are the toilet paper in this metaphor).

      • Cosmicomical@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        SOMEBODY ALREADY ASKED THIS QUESTION USE SEARCH

        I don’t understand this approach, if you don’t want to answer, just don’t answer. Why would you waste time writing that you won’t answer?

              • FilthyCheese@lemmings.world
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                7 months ago

                I think people are happy to eat shit. They’ll complain about it, sure. But they’ll slurp it up like ice cream.

                Otherwise, MTX heavy games wouldn’t be rewarded so heavily.

                Early on, you’ll see some movement. Some people will transfer to Linux - most will go back. A bunch of outraged threads.

                But it will die down. People will just accept it. They always do. They always will.

                • dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  But it will die down. People will just accept it. They always do. They always will.

                  I understand the frustration and cynicism that comes from wanting something to happen and waiting a good stretch of your life for it to do so but I am sorry, this is not reflective of reality.

                  Don’t mistake your own fatigue for the behavior of people in general.

                  Support for software on Linux or Wine is now orders of magnitude more complete and functional than it was 5-10 years ago. There are fundamental changes going on, just because we operated in a paradigm that suffocated the possibility of Linux adoption in the past doesn’t mean that paradigm will continue indefinitely.

                  There is a difference between being permanently powerless and being powerless under a certain arrangement of forces and actors.

                  We are entering a period of the status quo being smashed for better or worse in almost every dimension of our lives, what was likely to happen in the past 20 years does not reliably predict what is likely to happen in the next 20 years.

                  There is actually a true opening for Linux here in a way there never has been.

          • dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            I mean… how big really is the category of software tasks that you can’t properly do on Linux in 2024? I feel like it is getting to the point where you do genuinely have to be specific about what Linux can’t do that is a dealbreaker for you rather than just falling back on “Linux can’t do what people need to do” as a general criticism of it.

            Windows can’t do what people need it to do, and it fails to do so while sucking up your private data (which if you work at a business with confidential information IS a dealbreaker). At least when Linux fails it usually isn’t simultaneously violating the IT security structure of your organization….

            The funny thing is businesses and government entities can’t even claim with a straight face that they can trust Microsoft to adhere to the meager insufficient data privacy laws that do exist when there is zero evidence Microsoft would behave that way based on the track record even if the financial penalties for failing to do so were actually real to the ruling class and not just theoretical thought experiments that involve a slap on the wrist or more like a light tickling with a feather on the nose.

            • Cosmicomical@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              Oh i totally agree with you. I have a feeling that the only real obstacle on the way out from windows is proprietary software, especially adobe and some custom apps for specific hardware.

  • EnderMB@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Outside of the “Microsoft bad” comments, this is a prime example of why big tech companies need to stop promoting AI leads to a position where they are able to have influence over initiatives outside of AI.

    The worst thing to happen to basically every product/service in tech right now is AI. It’s made Google unreliable in the eyes of normal people for the first time in decades, it’s destroying trust in Amazon content across reviews and Kindle, it’s adding features to Facebook that no one ever wanted, etc.

    • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      And the annoying thing is, this tech can be exceptionally useful when it’s actually been implemented thoughtfully.

      Effortlessly cleaning up audio recordings using AI tooling is incredible, for example. There are audio recordings that I’ve been able to make sound great that previously would’ve required me to make some calls and ask for a bunch of re-recordings and added days of delays to a project.

      AI in image recognition to vastly speed up medical imaging diagnosis, or analysing lab work? Amazing. Asking unpaid medical students to laboriously pore over thousands of images sounds like a nightmare.

      Better offline translation? Sign me the fuck up.

      Image description for the visually impaired, like my sister? Genuinely life changing. A lot of content online isn’t properly tagged, or has zero attention placed on accessibility.

      The list goes on. Unfortunately, with big tech being as they are, their first thoughts turn to “which implementations of AI will aid us the most in scraping userdata and showing ads?”

      • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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        7 months ago

        The list goes on. Unfortunately, with big tech being as they are, their first thoughts turn to “which implementations of AI will aid us the most in scraping userdata and showing ads?”

        Don’t forget making sure the peons can squeeze out more productivity for the 1%.

  • naeap@sopuli.xyz
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    7 months ago

    Microsoft has built a number of safety features into Windows Recall to ensure that the service can’t run secretly in the background. When Windows Recall is enabled, it places a permanent visual indicator icon on the Taskbar to let the user know that Windows Recall is capturing data. This icon cannot be hidden or moved.

    Oh my, that one is really cute

    • CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      For those of you that are tired of Microsoft’s bullshit, a great place to start is Linux Mint or, if you want to be on the bleeding edge with a rolling distro that still gets some testing, openSUSE Tumbleweed (which is what I’m using).

      Signed,

      Linux daily driver convert of ~3 months now.

    • cultsuperstar@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Tell me about gaming on Linux. Most if my gaming is via Steam and I have a Steamdeck which I know runs on a flavor of Linux so it can be done. Is it fair to say that any game that runs on the Steam runs on Steam Linux?

      I just got a new prebuilt with Windows 11 Pro and I’ve been curious about Linux for the past few months. I know the variations have gotten better over the years but haven’t done too much research into it. I hear Mint and Arch quite a bit.

      • kshade@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Is it fair to say that any game that runs on the Steam runs on Steam Linux?

        No, it’s not that far along. A lot works, but if there’s invasive DRM or anticheat then it probably won’t. If you have specific games you want to play in mind check out https://www.protondb.com/

        I know the variations have gotten better over the years but haven’t done too much research into it.

        If you’re curious you can just create a live USB stick to test drive it. Won’t work well for gaming though.

  • My Password Is 1234@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    TL;DR:

    • Windows Recall, part of Microsoft’s new Copilot+ PC initiative, has sparked major privacy and security concerns.
    • The feature uses AI to capture and store screen data locally, allowing users to search for past activities using natural language.
    • Despite assurances that data is not uploaded to the cloud or used by Microsoft, user trust is lacking.
    • Microsoft has a history of practices that have eroded user trust, including obtrusive ads, ignoring user preferences, and requiring Microsoft Accounts.
    • Users are skeptical, fearing future misuse of the collected data for advertising or AI training.
    • Windows Recall reportedly stores data unencrypted, making it vulnerable to access by third-party apps and potential malware.
    • The open nature of Windows amplifies these risks, unlike more secure systems like iOS and Android.
    • Users have compared Windows Recall to spyware, with many threatening to switch to other operating systems like Linux or Mac.
    • Microsoft’s attempts to keep the development of Windows Recall secret did not help build trust.
    • Windows Recall will only be available on new Copilot+ PCs, requiring specific hardware not present in existing PCs.
    • Users will have the option to disable the feature, but there are concerns about it being enabled by default.
    • Despite security issues, the feature is effective in helping users find lost or forgotten data.
    • It could improve productivity if trust and security concerns are resolved.
    • Epzillon@lemmy.ml
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      7 months ago

      Windows Recall does NOT require NPU hardware to run. Currently Recall has been tested on Windows 11 with only a CPU and it seems to be fully operational. Of course performance is not as good as with an NPU. I believe Microsoft will try to push AI to local computing by only enabling on computers with NPUs to begin with. In the future it will most likely be able to be enabled on PCs which does not have an NPU but with a warning of bad performance in front of it.

  • jet@hackertalks.com
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    7 months ago

    Not really

    For the retail market, most people just have phones not computers anymore. Microsoft has already lost The Battle of Windows phone.

    For the Enterprise market none of this recent b******* is going to enterprise customers anyway, they would have group policies and volume licensing deals to avoid all the b*******.

    For those poor retail customers who still run Windows, they suffer, but they’re minor, not significant

  • ulkesh@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I’m telling everyone I know it’s time to move to Linux, or worst case Mac.

    • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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      7 months ago

      Mac is not better in any circumstance. Except maybe power efficiency but I doubt that’s going to last for long.

      • TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        MacOS is a highly mature, stable, and user-friendly OS that, at least for now, Apple does not meddle with in the same ways that MS has been doing with Windows. It has its problems, yes, but to say “any circumstance” is extreme. I don’t like or agree with everything that Apple has done to MacOS but at least Apple isn’t actively trashing it into the ground with forced bloat, ads, malware, etc like MS is doing.

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    7 months ago

    Most male computer uses watch porn and would not want an AI to log that. Many women find porn sickening and don’t understand it and will never understand male urges that result in watching it. The fact that this got into a finished product tells you a lot about Microsoft’s corporate culture.

    No one working there really cares about the company enough to bring up uncomfortable issues, they are all there just to get their paycheck and actual outcomes be damned. The culture their must be toxic for this product to have been put into a product enabled by default.

    If this was a top-down decision and there was no input by others into it, it leads to questions over whether this feature was forced to be included by the government, which can easily require corporations to do anything and then issue gag orders and whether it was some sort of test to see how much intrusive spying bullshit that regular consumers will tolerate now. If this was a feature that was forced into the product, the plan may have been to turn it off by default after negative feedback, but then just keep it in the program for when governments want to turn it on. Governments may have realized it in any capacity such a terrible feature would result in outrage and may have thought this was the path of least resistance, like saying “Would you like to eat a bowl of shit? No, okay, we’ll just give you these brussel sprouts”

    • JasSmith@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      Most male computer uses watch porn and would not want an AI to log that. Many women find porn sickening and don’t understand it and will never understand male urges that result in watching it. The fact that this got into a finished product tells you a lot about Microsoft’s corporate culture.

      Excellent point. We saw exactly the same phenomenon play out with Google and Gemini. The tool created racially diverse Nazis. Even a few minutes with the tool revealed major issues. There must have been hundreds of people who witnessed the slow moving train crash in realtime, but were either unwilling or unable to speak out. I think these companies have clearly cultivated a hierarchical culture of fear and intimidation. I recently left a job in which my manager was ex-Google. The stories she would tell were appalling. Her command-and-control style was, frankly, disgusting. She permitted zero critical feedback or discussion. It was her way or “fuck off.” I found that very instructive as to how these companies have morphed into shells of their formers selves. I’m not bullish on the future of these companies. They’re coasting very well on the fumes of their historical successes, and I think their demise is all but assured.